From ultra.sonic.net!nntp.dnai.com!uunet!pao.uu.net!chi.uu.net!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!shorts.skycache.com!pants.skycache.com!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail Tue Aug 17 08:25:44 1999 Path: ultra.sonic.net!nntp.dnai.com!uunet!pao.uu.net!chi.uu.net!plonk.apk.net!news.apk.net!shorts.skycache.com!pants.skycache.com!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail From: Max Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.chaos Subject: Transcripts of Aetherics Discussion on Damascus MUSH Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 20:14:50 -0700 To: emergenz@egroups.com, chaos-l@hollyfeld.org X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail X-Accept-Language: en Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C467BF03FCAC322AF0C251D9" X-ELN-Date: 12 Aug 1999 03:26:52 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Wed Aug 11 20:35:04 1999 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 967 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: pool0662.cvx6-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net Message-ID: <37B23C29.4CA989BC@earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.magick:154383 alt.magick.chaos:21138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C467BF03FCAC322AF0C251D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here they are! The long-awaited transcripts of the Aetherics discussion. Chaos, -Max -- Magickal Code: MCH/O S W@ N++ PEC/XX++ Dr A C$@++++>+++++ G>++ Q(+) 666 Y>++++ --------------C467BF03FCAC322AF0C251D9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; name="Aetherics -- Edited.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Aetherics -- Edited.txt" AETHERICS DISCUSSION ON DAMASCUS MUSH (a terrible case of the blind leading the blind) Kat chats, "i've an interest in what you do with it, but some people don't equate "aetherics" with what they do" Fell has arrived. You chat, "Pope pete uses it much more effectively -- as do many others." You chat, "That's the whole point of this discussion." Fell appears... you seem to vaguely recognise him... Max bows before Fell. look The Meeting Place The meeting place, where discussions, workshops, projects, and events are launched. The interior walls of the neo-Roman building have been left as blasted sandstone, but it is still invitingly warm inside. Various sofas and easy chairs are set in a rough circle. Contents: Fell Kat AETHERICS a very long couch a coffee machine Obvious exits: Out Kat says, "hi fell" Kat chats, "well, i dunno that he uses it more effectively, but he approaches it in a somewhat different manner" CharredRose chats, "Well, you've sort of caught my interest. I'll try to be here." You chat, "Well let me elaborate... " CharredRose chats, "Be right there." Fell says, "BRB" Fell leaves the building. Fell has left. CharredRose steps through the entranceway. CharredRose has arrived. CharredRose says, "Ahoy thar." CharredRose bows You say, "Well, like I was saying, qi gong masters do stuff that's unheard of in modern occultism." Kat has a friend staying with her who uses qi a lot in his martial arts. You say, "Telekinesis (along the order of Star Wars) telepathy (from psychics), flying (Pope Pete's aetherics), walking to the the store five miles away in fifteen minutes (both Fotamecus and yogis ;)" CharredRose says, "I can say that I haven't met anyone (offline) who has shown any real experience with using qi in any conscious way." You say, "I've only met one person who has." You say, "He was incredible." You say, "He stuck to the ceiling." You say, "He's only eighteen." CharredRose says, "Stuck to the ceiling?" You say, "Yep... we were playing hide and seek with some other guys... only they didn't know it yet ;) and he found the perfect hiding spot -- the ceiling." CharredRose says, "That's interesting." Kat says, "go on... that rather beats the telepathy, empathy, little odds and sods of manipulation I've managed" CharredRose nods in agreement with kat You say, "That's what I'm saying -- why hasn't modern occultism picked up on this sort of stuff?" Kat says, "it hasn't, has it?" Kat says, "i mean, I've been working on all this for a couple of years now" You say, "Why don't mages go around *actually* throwing lightning-bolts from their fingertips." Fell has arrived. You say, "Gerhard Helmut did. Ice magick might've been morally reprehensible, but the associations with qi might've been worth something." Kat says, "do you have anything more on Ice Magick than the usual?" CharredRose says, "Well, I don't do anything like that simply because I seem to have programmed my mind so that I can only access that sort of thing when I -need- it. But I'mw orking on that." You say, "I've got nothing on ice magick but what I've read in the Book of Zee." Kat says, "Azrhm's due on" You say, "But I've got some info on qi... bloody little, but some." You say, "(not in electronic format)" Fell says, "All these energy systems...." You say, "I am convinced that belief and samadhi are key to these practices... the energy is in the mind, but as a sigil is a symbol of a desire, imagining the qi is a symbol of affecting reality." Kat says, "has anyone else noticed the tendancy of electronic equipment to go down in high magickal charges" Fell says, "When u say Aetherics, Max, are you refering to the mechanism, the "stuff" that transmits magickal force/makes it happen, or something else?" You say, "I've noticed stuff falling off of platforms. I've noticed my dog always leaves the room. I've noticed two lightbulbs blowing simultaneously during a particularly bad experience with a demon." Fell says, "Kat: Definately. U remember my friend Bizkit? He can't go near kettles, hi-fis, etc. He can only ever log on for a few minutes before any machine he's using dies" You say, "Aether refers to the underlying energy of the universe. Synonimous with Chi or Kundalini, or vibes, or whatever you want to call it." You say, "Wow." CharredRose says, "I know I'm a little lagged, but I agree, belief is the key to any practice, this one included." Fell says, "So is our purpose here to quantize this or just explore different paradigms? I mean, quantizing it "absolutely" totally defeats being a Choate for me." You say, "I plan on studying these things in depth later on, but I have little idea as to where to begin. Most books on qi are only in reference to healing and the likes. No info on knocking people over at 100 yards." CharredRose nods... You say, "No... I don't believe it is fruitful at all to quantize aetherics." Fell says, "I'd say you'd need a teacher for the more full-on stuff." You say, "So would I, but that's not very likely going to happen for a while." CharredRose says, "I bought a book that doesn't have anything on "knocking others over" or anything, but it has proved rather useful. Fell: I have to disagree with you that you would need a teacher for the 'full-on' stuff. I believe that anything is possible if you believe you can do it." Fell says, "So we're just exploring different methods of energy/matrix/Dark Matter/whatever manipulation?" You say, "I plan on starting off the way I started off at psychic phenomenon -- experimenting with what little knowledge I've got." Kat has disconnected. Fell says, "Fair enough Rose, I agree, but in the context of a "trad" qi approach/paradigm, is the use of a mentor not part of the philosophy?" You say, "Char: Can you give me a title/author/isbn?" CharredRose says, "Yes, Max, just one second. And Fell: Trad? Traditional?" You say, "We're exploring everything we can... we don't even know what we're exploring. We're just discussing the topic of aetherics from any/every angle we can." Fell has reconnected. Fell says, "Sorry, link died." You say, "The philosophy is of no relevance -- the practice is all that counts. I often practice wiccan spells. Doesn't mean I worship their gods, or mention their names during the associated chants/prayers." Fell says, "Fair point." You say, "Have you had any experience with qi?" CharredRose says, "Max: Title: "Eight Simple Qigong exercises for Health", author: Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming, ISBN: 1-886969-52-3" You say, "Danke." CharredRose nods CharredRose says, "No problem" Fell says, "I liked what you said in the announcement, about how when constructing a paradigm to work in, many chaotes tend to neglect the mechanism they're supposing "makes it happen". It's true the system doesn't have to be "true" or even possible, but I think internal consistency is a must. That's what my Chaos Onions thing's about." You say, "I think I saw that one at Borders the other night when I was looking at their matial arts/qi section." Fell says, "No personal experience with qi, but that sort of low-level (ie direct) energy work is much of a muchness isn't it?" Azrhm steps through the entranceway. Azrhm has arrived. You say, "You never did send that to me. Would you care to explain it?" You say, "Welcome Azrhm. You haven't missed a whole lot." Fell says, "Sure! Let me just find my diagram..." CharredRose says, "It's a set of 16 exercises that helps you concentrate on qi movement." CharredRose says, "Hi, Azrhm" Azrhm says, "Hello, merry meet, 93ze, all o' that crap ;-)" Fell says, "Hey dude :) You say, "Char: Have you read much of that book?" Fell says, "OK I'm going to do a file send: Get ready to copy it all and paste it into a text window, cool?" CharredRose says, "All of it, once. Part of it twice." You say, "Okay." Dragon chats, "hullo" You say, "Char: Would you mind explaining some of the fundamentals of qi manipulation for dissemination?" CharredRose chats, "Hi, dragon" You chat, "Hello, Dragon. We're in the Meeting Place off of the Central Courtyard now." Dragon chats, "okay ..." CharredRose says, "Max: I missed that. say again?" You say, "Char: Would you mind explaining some of the fundamentals of qi manipulation for dissemination?" You say, "Just some of the basic beliefs/paradigms/philosophies/practices?" Dragon steps through the entranceway.Dragon steps through the entranceway. Dragon has arrived. You say, "Welcome, Dragon." Dragon says, "thankee" Fell ---------------- Fell //--- ---\ Fell /// 3 \ Fell /// \ Fell // \ Fell / ----------- Fell | /// \ | Fell | // 2 \ | Fell | / | Fell | | /----- | /| | Fell | | // \ | | | Fell +----------+ | 1 | +-----|-----+ Fell | | \ // | | | Fell | | -----/ | |/ | Fell | / | Fell | \ // / Fell \ \ /// / Fell \ ----------- / Fell \ / Fell \ 4 / Fell \--- ---/// Fell You say, "We got started just a few minutes ago." You say, "WOW!" Dragon is typically late Fell says, "OK that's not great but good enuff..." You say, "It's alright, Dragon. You haven't missed much." Fell says, "Basically we have three circles, one inside the other, with the outer one with two lines across, yeah?" CharredRose says, "Well, I don't know much about the philosophies and such of qi manipulation. I sort of keep what I like from books/people and drop the rest." You say, "Alright." Fell says, "There's also an arrow, double-ended, connecting the two halves of the outer." Fell says, "Now what it is a belief map; it demonstrates layering of beliefs and is useful in creating new paradigms, as well as learning belief manipulation to adapt new paradigms." Fell says, "Ok so far?" You say, "Alright... go on." CharredRose says, "Shoot. brb." Fell says, "So anyway... you see the center circle, with the 1 in it? This represents our core belief, that everything else is built upon." Fell says, "We take as this central belief, "Conciousness is real, since its effects are tangible."" Azrhm has reconnected. Azrhm says, "To coin a phrase, 'Whoops.'" You say, "=P W/b Azrhm." Fell says, "What I'm saying is that everything we do, in "normal" life or in magick, has this belief as a given at a base level." Fell says, "wb az" Azrhm says, "wb?"" Dragon says, "hullo Azrhm" Azrhm says, "aah, welcome back!" Fell says, "Now, moving to the next layer out layers a further belief on top of that." Fell says, "That belief is hard to put into words, but deals with the acceptance of "some form of matrix, interconnecting all nodes within it". Note that the FORM of the matrix is totally arbitrary at this stage." Fell says, "Ie, we could be talking about a Christian monodeity, or a system of Qaballah, or an information matrix." Fell says, "The point is merely that some form of network exists." Fell says, "I have not yet found any paradigm that does not conform to this model so far..." Fell says, "The outer layer, however, is a little different." Fell says, "It has two high-level belief modes, both built on top of what I have already said." Fell says, "One of these is our normal, everyday, "standby" mode; not thinking too much about the universe, just watching TV or doing our work." Fell says, "This mode requires no complex belief system or too much thinking; in short, it's getting some peace." Fell says, "But the other mode is the one we enter when we are conducting any form of magick." Fell says, "Because it's built upon the other two layers as well, they are still valid." Fell says, "And so here we are quantizing this matrix so it makes sense to us in some form, and manipulating it." Fell says, "Or even merely accessing it." Fell says, "But what the onion demonstrates is" Fell says, "the small amount of difference between given belief systems; in order to effectively switch between them we don't have to rebuild our very existence from the" Fell says, "ground up, merely adjust our definition of the matrix we're dealing with - step from one side of the outer layer to the other." You say, "I see." Fell says, "The co-existence of the two (or indeed, 3, 4, n) modes of outer belief is important too" Fell says, "because it is our safety valve and stops us from going insane when the paradigm we're working in suddenly fucks up" Dragon says, "interesting." Fell says, "it keeps us sane." Fell says, "It seems so obvious that it at first strikes one as trivial" Fell says, "But keep the diagram, and you'll think about it. It IS simple, but it" Fell says, "is also the key to paradigm switching, and what most chaotes would describe as chaos magick." Fell says, "Fin :)" CharredRose says, "Hrm..." You say, "That's a very good explanation... I hadn't heard that one before. I've noticed that people attempt to rationalize their actions/beliefs through others which seem contradictory. So you're saying it's just jumping from one side of the "peel" to the other?" Dragon says, "I've seen the onion model used before, but a little differently. Nema talks of it in her book, Ma'at Magick." Fell says, "Max: Absolutely. And thanks!" Fell says, "Nema?" You say, "VERY interesting..." Dragon says, "Yes, Nema. She used to be on the zee-list, she's written an excellent book on self-initiation, she's about to publish another book." You say, "Anyhow... back on the topic of aetherics, Char, are you with us again?" Fell says, "Ah! I'd like to see other examples of people using onions :) Any isbns?" Dragon says, "Fell: yes, let me grab my copy of Ma'at Magick." Fell says, "Thanx" CharredRose says, "Yeah, sort of, Max." Dragon says, "Ma'at Magick: A Guide to Self-Initiation, by Nema. pub. Weiser. ISBN 0877288275" You say, "Would you like to share some of what you've learned about qi with us? Maybe explain the basic manipulation principles/techniques. i.e. how to move qi through the body? Fell says, "Thanks Dragon, duely noted." CharredRose says, "All right, let me think for a second on how to put this." CharredRose says, "Well, basically, I just take qi, whether from inside myself, or from some external source, and use it. Whether that means to physically shape it into something (only happened visibly once) or to send it toward some goal or desire. I don't know if that even half answers your question, max, but it's a start, I guess." You say, "Okay.. how do you use it? How do you move it about and cause it to ellicit results?" CharredRose says, "Well, all my magic that I do is done by saying "I want this to be like this" and it happens. I sort of visualize it as energy (various ways for various results) and tell it where to go and what to do what it gets there. Or, when I'm bored, I just sit and shape balls of it with my hands." Dragon says, "sometimes energy maniputlation is just plain fun"Fell says, "But what makes this "qi", Char? I'm just having problems seeing where qi differs from another form of energy work." CharredRose says, "I don't really consider them to be different things, Fell, energy and qi. Energy comes from everything, qi comes from everything. Both are used to accomplish goals. What do you think the difference is?" Azrhm says, "And this 'matrix', it connects all the layers of the onion?" Fell says, "No Az, it refers to the world around us, and the way the things within it interact. That layer just acknowledges that such a system exits." Fell says, "Exists even." Fell says, "Char, I don't; I was just wondering if there was a semantic difference I was missing." Fell says, "I just read back what I said; I didn't mean to undermine energy work in any way. Its value cannot be overstated." CharredRose says, "I use them both the same way, if there is a difference." Fell says, "It is, perhaps, the purest magick." You say, "Char: Fair enough. Can you give us an example of using qi to do something?" You say, "Incidentally... there's a copy of AETHERICS on the floor which is readable." CharredRose says, "Max: Hrm, what sort of example are you looking for? Telekinesis type of results, or... hrm... intangibles?" CharredRose says, "(btw, I'm not very used to discussing my beliefs and such with others, so I'm not sure how to word some things)" You say, "Something with noticable results, preferably. For example, I used aetherics for healing purposes yesterday after cutting myself for blood for a ritual. The wound already looks two weeks old, and it looks like there won't be a scar. (It was three parallel cuts about an inch long and spaced to make a quarter-inch wide wound.)" CharredRose nods... All right. You say, "Don't worry about it, Rose. We'll understand what you mean." CharredRose says, "I guess that the only time recently that I've used it for anything noticable enough to stick in memory was one time I was out walking and picked up a big rock. Noticed there was a snake under it and dropped it back (instinct, sorry snaky). Then I wondered if I had hurt or killed it, but I wouldn't get close enough to lift the rock " I wouldn't get close enough to lift the rock " CharredRose says, "So I just sort of stood a little bit back and... rocked it until it rolled off. *shrug* it rolled off. *shrug*" Dragon says, "just reading the copy of aetherics, here, and the part about directing the force beyond the hands sounds very much like reiki (as much as that seems to be a 'newage' topic anymore)" You say, "NICE." You say, "That was my next question... Kat told me you're very knowledgable about Reiki. Care to share?" Fell says, "I understand yr difficulty Char. It's a sign of the raw baseness of such stuff that it _is_ so difficult to word it." Fell says, "Reiki? Please tell!" Dragon says, "Kat flatters me. I am a reiki practicioner and teacher, yes." CharredRose nods to Fell... Thanks. :) Fell says, "I've just started" CharredRose says, "Oh? I've heard a lot about it, but don't know much about it. Tell tell tell! :)" Dragon says, "but essentially, reiki is the channeling of chi through your body, and directing it, usually to do healing work" You say, "By the way, Rose, was the rock large/heavy, and how long did it take you to rock it off the snake? (And was the snake ok? =P)" Fell says, "Do you see a seperating factor between the actual _energy_ Reiki and other energy works use, Dragon, or is the distinction more in the _way_ it is used?" CharredRose says, "It was about 10lbs, it took me about a minute and a half to two minutes. And yeah, the snake was fine. Slithered up to me, looked, and left." You say, "Incredible." Dragon says, "I'm not completely sure, fell. old-school reiki masters will tell you that you have to receive reiki attunements to be able to channel reiki. but I've met people who, for all intents and purposes, have been practicing reiki for years and just never known about reiki or called their work by that name" You say, "Do you do that sort of stuff very often? Did you borrow that only from qi gong, or were there other influences?" Fell says, "I think that's how many such disciplines come about; people working in seperate but in parallel." CharredRose says, "Well, I just do stuff like that when I need to. And no, it wasn't qi gong. It was dragonball z *grins, blushes*" Dragon says, "yes. my own feelings are that reiki is just another system of manipulating energy, and as such, it's very similar to other energy manipulatuions" Max chuckles. You say, "Kewlness! I got started from Star Wars, myself. =)" Fell nods in agreement. Dragon says, "indeed. use the force, chaote." Fell says, "The Force is a very workable paradigm. Internally consistant, low-level and intuitive." You say, "That I did! Many a playing-card will attest to that, as well." Dragon says, "one complaint that I've heard before from some energy healers is that they end up using their own energy to do healing, and wind up very drained afterwards" CharredRose smiles... Wow, I'm glad I'm not just completely weird, then ;) Dragon says, "and that, i think, is one of the reasons why reiki is so popular, because it teaches you how to channel 'the force' and not your own energies" Fell says, "Yes, my friend complains of this with many energy works. I wonder why this could be?" Dragon says, "some people have very little int he way of personal shielding. some of them simply don't know how or haven't tried to tap into anything outside of themselves." You say, "I think it may be that they engineeer these "drainings" from their fear of it occurring, or belief that it could." Fell says, "I mean, if the paradigm is doing that to you, why not add a clause to stop it? IF the practitioner in question is indeed aware that it is them setting therules, that is." Dragon says, "Max, that's a very likely possibility, as well." CharredRose nods.. I think I agree, Max. Fell says, "That's very valid, Max." Dragon says, "Some people need to feel as though they're sacrificing something for their work." You say, "So could you explain your angle on energy manipulation to us, Dragon? How to do it? Why it works?" Dragon says, "Hrm, how to condense it all succinctly ..." Kat has connected. Dragon says, "as for how to do it, with reiki specifically it's quite simple. it's little more than a matter of thinking "okay, let's do it!" and it goes. there are ways to make it more or less efficient, but basically all you have to do is will it on or off and there you have it." Kat says, "just popping in to say high :)" Fell says, "wb kat" Fell says, "Can u stay for a while?" CharredRose says, "'Allo, Kat" Dragon says, "I think energy manipulation has many possible uses and methods, and I'm still exploring them all. Could take me a while. :)" Dragon says, "At Starwood this year, there evolved an amusing little past-time that people came to call 'psychic twister'" Kat says, "I can stay a little" Fell says, "Good :)" Max is listening. You say, "W/b Kat." Dragon says, "Hi Kat :)" Dragon says, "Oh, well, psychic twister came about sort of spontaneously, and didn't seem to have any purpose other than experimentation and fun." Dragon says, "The first one involved myself, Duirwyrd, Davis, Loki, and Jody" Dragon says, "we all started by holding hands palms facing to each other in a circle, not actually touching, usually, and just pushing or pulling the energy back and forth around and around" Dragon says, "and then some wag - erm, I mean my husband ;) - stuck a foot up in the air to make another 'link' with someone else's foot" Max snickers. Dragon says, "and so we all had hands as well as feet joined, and the energy just kept flowing. we all got quite high off of it" CharredRose says, "Interesting..." Fell says, "Cool!" You say, "Kewl." Dragon says, "and every passing night brought more and more people to our campsite to participate in 'psychic twister'" Max usually feels pretty excited after a successful session of pyschic practice. (but that could just be the thrill of success) Dragon says, "well, it also helped that we'd all consumed rather too much absinthe, as well :)" Max chuckles. Fell says, "No such discussion would be complete without some form of impromptu energy work right here, right now; I know we haven't heard Max's thoughts and approaches yet but shall we try a little something while Kat can join us?" You say, "Alright." Fell realises he didn't have an idea ready Fell says, "Anybody?!" You say, "How 'bout this: we choose a reciever" You say, "and everyone else sends an agreed-upon fruit/letter/color/whatever" Dragon says, "heh, this could be fun" Fell says, "Without the receiver being told it?" You say, "Tell them nothing more than the category it will come from" Fell says, "Yeah, cool!" Fell says, "Who'd like to be the receiver first?" You say, "i.e. its a fruit" You say, "I will -- I've had experience." Fell says, "OK! I'll page a suggestion around." Dragon says, "so who picks the fruit? :)" Kat says, "okay" Fell says, "Much better." You say, "You have to really "feel" the subject -- i.e. if it's a fruit, you have to smell it taste it, enjoy the texture think of the image, hear the name." You say, "Send all that at once." You say, "Page me when you've selected and I'll return to this room." Fell says, "OK, it's a fruit - now leave so I can tell 'em!" You step out of the building. The Central Courtyard You are in the central courtyard, a roughly circular island in the gulf of time and space. The courtyard is about half an acre across. Stretching out in every direction off the island is the gulf of Everything and Nothing.This is the departure point for the different main areas in the MUSH, and also contains various utility buildings.From here you can also enter The Bunker, situated the bowels of the island, where you can find out how to create your own room or island, which you can then build up into your own domain if you wish. Contents: Yellow Wisp a sign post Area Map Obvious exits: West Reality St., East Reality St., Apophis Street, The Astral Landing Zone, A Small Dirt Road, TransAlternaTemporoPortal , The Meeting Place, Forge, AAAZ Portal, and Down to the Bunker A yellow wisp dances excitedly around Max's head, saying:"Talk to Yellow! Talk to Yellow! Talk to Yellow!" Max says, "Go away! =P" Fell pages: Finished arguing :) Come back! Kat chats, "max, come in" You stride towards the Roman building and realise how large it is. In awe, you step through the massive entranceway. The Meeting Place The meeting place, where discussions, workshops, projects, and events are launched. The interior walls of the neo-Roman building have been left as blasted sandstone, but it is still invitingly warm inside. Various sofas and easy chairs are set in a rough circle. Contents: Dragon Azrhm Fell CharredRose Kat AETHERICS a very long couch a coffee machine Obvious exits: Out Dragon smiles You say, "Fruit?" Fell says, "OK peeps are we ready?" Fell says, "Fruit." You say, "K." You say, "Tell me when." Fell says, "Syncing....." Fell says, "NOW" Fell says, "Oh, have a link symbol if u need it:" You say, "No..." Fell says, "Fair nuff" You say, "This is high magick sort of stuff. Or maybe orange but not sorcery." Fell says, "Point." Fell says, "Still going." Kat says, "getting anything, Max?" Fell says, "I've finished mine :)" Fell says, "Had a real one :)" CharredRose was thinking of doing the same, Fell :) Dragon says, "my imaginary one tastes pretty damn good :)" CharredRose grins at Dragon You say, "I kinda got banana ..." You say, "Mixed up with grapes" You say, "Keep going though." Dragon says, "hee hee" Fell says, "Keep going....." Fell says, "(Although a process of elimnation is in danger of starting!)" Azrhm says, "yeah, name all the fruits you can think of ;-)" Max shakes his head... they chose something from Guam. You say, "Nectarines" Dragon grins Kat grins widely You say, "small light things?" Azrhm says, "IMHO, fruit is a bit of an ambiguous subject. Everyone likes different varieties, textures ripeness and that kinda thing. There are also a lot of senses (touch/taste/smell/sight) involved." You say, "Right." You say, "That's what makes it easy." Fell says, "Well whatever the fruit actually was, he certainly has a link with Kat ;)" You say, "An abstract concept like a letter without many attributes is difficult." Dragon much prefers nectarines, anyway. no fuzz. ;) Fell says, "PEACHES." Kat grins You say, "Doh!" CharredRose giggles Kat says, "what this says for my concentration skills..." Fell laughs You say, "I was going to say peaches, but thought of nectarines since they seemed smaller. =P" Fell says, "Another little game, anyone?" Kat says, "nectarines are usually larger" Kat says, "okay, try me" Dragon says, "kat complained about apricots, too" Azrhm says, "Maybe we should do a few tests on both 'complex' and 'simples'?" Fell says, "More of a link-up thing?" Max slaps himself. You say, "Then I was thinking of peaches!" Kat says, "so now what?" You say, "I already have, Az. I can't name a letter for the life of me." Max points to Fell. Fell says, "Well, we could do a new age hand-holdy pretty fluffy clouds little bunny wabbits link-up "hey wow, maaaan" sorta thing" You say, "How 'bout a playing card? Color, suit, number." Azrhm says, "Yeah, I'm just juggling in my head about what would be better, something involving all senses or just one. Depends on the person I suppose, but reflecting I reckon all senses." Fell says, "Yeah card's good - different categories of judgment, so at least ya can get it half-right :)" Azrhm says, "A playing card seems nice and abstract actually, let's give it a whirl." Dragon says, "we had to argue about which fruit to send :)" You say, "Okay... your turn Fell." Fell says, "OK, I'll try." Fell says, "See ya!" Fell leaves the building. Fell has left. CharredRose waves Kat says, "ace of spades?" You paged Fell with 'Whatever you do, don't think. ;)'. Azrhm says, "2 hearts?" You say, "wait... I'm shuffling." Fell pages: I won't, just making a fagKat is prepared to go with a 2 of hearts CharredRose says, "10 of Clubs" Azrhm says, "I knew someone would say ace of spades... and knew it would be kat" You say, "2 of spades" Kat says, "so i like motorhead... so shoot me" You say, "lol... joker. >=)" CharredRose says, "Heh." Dragon says, "2 of spades is good" You say, "2 of spades it is." Kat says, "okay" CharredRose says, "Two of spades. Rock on." You paged Fell with 'alright'. You say, "here he comes" Kat says, "he's coming" Azrhm says, "Hey, I went to staffordshire uni for a year or so, they have Lemmy's handprints outside the main building!" Fell steps through the entranceway. Fell has arrived. Fell says, "Hit me" CharredRose hits fell CharredRose says, "Oh..." Azrhm says, "what a great hall of learning ... not ;-)" Fell says, "I bet you were all arguing in here :)" Kat says, "if only i had a deck of cards...#" Dragon says, "everybody ready?" You say, "Okay... I'm sending." Fell says, "I take it you're sending? Oh yeah, you're sending..." Kat says, "sending...." Fell says, "It's a jack" Fell says, "Clubs or spades" Fell says, "Dont tell me" Fell says, "Well what I'm seeing is like, red clubs..." Fell says, "Which is odd" Max gets that a lot. =) Fell says, "So...." Fell says, "I'm with clubs. Jack thereof." Kat says, "nope" Fell says, "Tell me" Dragon says, "at least he got the color right :)" You say, "Two of spades." Kat says, "2 of spade" Fell says, "Oh well :)" Fell says, "I'm crap at poker too" You say, "Anyone for another round?" Max chuckles. CharredRose grins at Fell Kat says, "why not" Fell says, "Sure" Kat has houseguests... you people are distracting Dragon says, "i'd like to hear what people do, exactly, when they send" You say, "You just volunteered, Kat. =)" CharredRose says, "Sure" Dragon says, "techniques and whatnot" Kat says, "oh good" Kat says, "shall i leave?" You say, "Yeah, go ahead." Kat leaves the building. Kat silently drifts out. Kat has left. Azrhm says, "I use the monitor as a kind of focus." You say, "Technique is simple.... concentrate on all aspects of it... dwell on it in concise, clear symbolism." Fell says, "Hmmm... I tried to fell the TAZ we have, then project my fruit into that" CharredRose says, "Same here, Az. I just look at the person's name and say "Hey, it's such-n-such"" Dragon says, "I'm experimenting, using the reiki distance-sending symbol as a means of opening a channel" Azrhm says, "Visualise the image (sight, sound, concept etc) move it on through the monitor" Fell says, "The modem's better for me." You say, "How do you do that, Dragon?" Azrhm says, "Mine's internal " You say, "Alright... let's go for simple. A dog?" CharredRose nods Fell says, "Dog :)" Kat chats, "quit arguing and make up your minds" Azrhm says, "What kind of dog?" You say, "Dog it is." Dragon says, "well, there are various symbols you learn in reiki, the one for distance sending is the hon-sha-ze-sho-nen. I draw it in the air with my palm, and also in my mind, and imagine it shooting off to the person at the other end." Fell says, "Is this a nutty log dog?" Azrhm says, "LOL" You say, "Good point... a scottie." Fell says, "With a tartan bow" You say, "Black little scottie doggie." You say, "That smells like wet fur. ;)" Fell says, "brb must..... find..... museli....." Azrhm says, "With a nice tartan coat" Azrhm says, "Oops, getting carried away there." You say, "Let us know when you're back, Char." Kat chats, "i'm getting paranoid here... what are you cooking up for me?" Dragon has disconnected. You say, "We're losing people fast. =(" Fell says, "Back! Why'd dragon disconnect?" CharredRose says, "Sorry, I'll be back in a few" Azrhm looks at watch You say, "Er..." You say, "Should we start without her and Char?" Fell says, "In the meantime, I'll get her back, and Max can talk about his approaches?" You say, "Okay." Fell leaves the building. Fell has left. Fell steps through the entranceway. Fell has arrived. Kat steps through the entranceway. Kat has arrived. Kat drifts in quietly. You say, "Alright..." Fell says, "Waiting for Rose." You say, "My techniques..." Fell says, "Nobody mention the THING!" Kat says, "what ARE you going to do to me" Max cackles maniacally! Kat says, "okay if my beloved bitten helps me out here?" Fell says, "But of course" Fell says, "Someone send me some astral nicotine, I'm outta baccy." Kat says, "when i get the joint back, i'll send you some astral dope" Fell says, "Ohhhh yes" Fell says, "I'll give u my astral icq" Kat says, "that sounds almost obscene" Fell says, "<---VV" Fell says, "Just DCC it down there :)" Fell says, "Max? You have the floor" Kat says, "perhaps after this, I should attempt to spread stoned vibes to all and sundry" You say, "Alright... er... well I started off with magick. One day I was bored so I looked into qi gong. That came to no avail, since everyone wants money for their info. (Wankers!) So I went looking about, and then, hey, whaddya know? Star Wars: Episode 1 is coming out next month! Woohoo! So I go looking for info on star wars, and I think, "Now SOME idiot's bound to have made a religion out of the force." Sure enough... I found the Jedi Academy. So I printed up some files about "Feeling" the force."You say, " Yes, I'm a nut." You say, "So I go ahead and try some of it one day at school -- enter "Card Tricks"." Fell says, "Coooool" You say, "I'll spare you guys the 4-page synopsis but what happens is I'm able to divine the suits of cards without looking at them." CharredRose glances at the screen... Whoa, weird... You say, "So after that I picked up a book entitled "Develop your PSYCHIC SKILLS" by Enid Hoffman. Can't stand her unfounded indoctrinated theories, but wound up doing some more fantastic things. And of course, there was Liber Null." You say, "I don't know what you mean by that Kat?" DeusExMachina pages: "Hello there, everyone." You say, "My techniques are VERY lengthy in theory for the most basic of tasks. Shall I try to summarize shortly?" Kat chats, "come in, DEM they're plotting my fate" Fell says, "Definately" You paged DeusExMachina with 'Come into the Meeting Place (formerly ooc room) -- we're having a discussion about Aetherics (for the second hour)'. DeusExMachina has arrived. DeusExMachina materializes from an expanding ball of electricity. You say, "Okay... well here's how it goes:" Fell says, "Wotcha dem :)" DeusExMachina waves to everyone. Azrhm says, "Hey DEM" You say, "Clear the mind. The analytical component of the mind is what hinders success. You have to "feel" all the results. Blank your mind, hold the card, keep the desire in mind. It'll just come to you -- you'll just sort of notice something that's always been there, but you've always overlooked -- like the smell of air." Azrhm has reconnected. Azrhm says, "Doublepluswhoops." You say, "Hello, Deus. Welcome back. =)" DeusExMachina says, "Thanks! Sorry if I'm interrupting the discussion-in-progress..." DeusExMachina grins. DeusExMachina says, ""...I'll just have a seat and try to get up to speed."" You say, "That's more or less how I elicit results. Then there's aetherics, in whic I tend to use Peter Carroll's technique of visualizing the energy rising from the abdomen to the point where you need it, since that seems to work best." CharredRose waves... Hi dem You say, "Liber Prestidigitation is in the other room... I'll go get it." [Snipped arduous journey to the library to retrieve item.] ct1 I'll be the first to admit that I don't know how magick works. I suspect it to be a function of belief, but it would be impossible to attribute magick only to belief, as there are infinitely more possibilities. Other elements of magick seem to be obsession, and samadhi, (gnosis, or no-mind) but it also impossible to determine that they do not work simply a result of my belief! But I have already written on the subject of belief and consensus reality and that is not my purpose here. My purpose here is to relate the simple elements which I use to elicit results in the form of what seems to be high magick. For all I know these are merely orange workings (or less) but certainty here is subjective, if not impossible. First, a short story: (Type ct2 to continue.) ct2 One day I was feeling as if I could conquer the world, but, being in the middle of nowhere as it were, I hadn't much to conquer. I did, however, have a deck of cards with me. Having recently read a paragraph-long document roughly pertaining to "feeling" the "vibes" of matter, I decided to see if I could try a rather simple test which sprang to mind. I would attempt to "feel" the suit of cards from the deck I had with me. I shuffled it, held it face-down in my palm, and put my thumb on the top card. "Spades.", I thought. Turning the card over, I found it marked with spades. I smiled and tried again. "Hearts." Sure enough, the card was from the hearts suit. Exhilerated, I continued in this manner until I had guessed at the suits of ten playing cards, getting seven correct. (Type ct3 to continue.) ct3 Probability dictates I would get 2.5 correct by guessing at random. I continued practicing the trick for a couple of days until I finally called ten out of ten correctly. The probability of doing that by chance is approximately 0.000000953674316406 (one in 1,048,576) As far as I am concerned that is undeniable proof of not only the existance of magick, but of my ability to wield it. (Type ct4 to continue.) ct4 The technique is simple, but difficult in execution. I started by clearing my mind -- entering samadhi/gnosis/no-mind whilst holding the card whose suit I was divining. I've noticed that my mind is without conscious thought in this state, but not without thought -- perception remains, along with subconscious thought which is finally in a quiet-enough mind to be "heard". Then I attempt to percieve the card -- not through sight, indeed I often look away, but through the mind. Sometimes this involves a visualisation, but more often it is an undescribable "openness" to feeling and sensation. I get the "feeling" of a suit before long, and am able to accurately (most of the time) call it correctly. That's the basic idea, but it gets very tricky. (Type ct5 to continue.) ct5 I often find myself exhausted by the strain of telling the difference between the feeling and the fancy of a thing. For very often, one will mistake a preconception, or some part of imagination for the perception one is trying to attain via samadhi, and will call that instead of the suit of the card. It is important to, upon thinking what suit a card might be, to ignore that and think of which suit the card IS. Somewhere within oneself, I have noticed, there is some mechanism which KNOWS the true nature of not only the card, but everything. I've noticed myself turning a card over after having called "spades" only to think before looking at the card, at the most subtle level, "that's wrong", and find the card to be hearts It is also this mechanism which tells you the suit of the card. (Type ct6 to continue.) ct6 I had forgotten, after a lapse of practice, the precise technique of these "card tricks" and had to teach myself all over again. Sometimes the hardest lessons to grasp are the ones you've already learned. It took some time, but I've finally managed once more to master this bit of magick, and along the way I've made notes. I present to you the notes which helped me relearn this art of divination, taken from my magickal diary: (Type ct7 to continue.) ct7 < In the margin, written sideways is the following: 7/20/99 (?) > Commentary: There's a difference between the feel and the fancy of a thing. It is at times very difficult to tell the difference. There would've been one or two more right had I not went on a false whim. Oh well. (Type ct8 to continue.) ct8 7/23/99 - Samadhi is definitely involved. The most important part of "card tricks" is emptying one's mind. I think that nothing was left but perception -- true perception of reality. I tried to clear my mind absorbing - that is, percieving - only the suit of the card. It seems to work, but is physically demanding from a mental angle. Of course, as always, I could be wrong. (Type ct9 to continue.) ct9 7/24/99 - It oftentimes helps achieving samadhi to pay attention to one's surroundings - to not merely "see" but to "look"; to ########feel and smell and taste and hear one's surroundings unlike the normal act of attention to these things we pay. It has been written "to go about a place as if never having #### been there before," and this is the manner in which one ought to go about. For our own sake. (Type ct10 to continue.) ct10 7/26/99 - There is ###### between the card and Samadhi a single answer, which, somewhere within yourself, you know and which is furthermore clear -- so much so that you take it for granted to the point where you do not notice it. Somewhere within yourself the answer lies. Samadhi serves only to quiet your mind long enough to #notice it. (Type ct11 to continue.) ct11 7/28/99 - # Upon flipping a card over, something in the back of your mind tells you if you# are correct or not. It is this same mechanism which tells you the suit of the card. Listen to it. (Type ct12 to continue.) ct12 7/31/99 - It is _very_ important that one holds no ######### preconceptions about the results of the divination. One ought not have _any_ notions in one's mind of what they might be, and one ought not mistake feelings, ideas, symbols, etc. born of one's own mind for the results of the divination. (Type ct13 to continue.) ct13 Of course cards are only used for practice and as an example. I've applied this method to telepathy, future-prediction, and other aspects of divination. Similar techniques can also be used for "projective magick" or enchantment. I've not yet explored this well enough to feel qualified to write on it, but you can be sure that when I have explored it further, another essay will be in order. What I have done, however, includes telekinesis, and affecting probability. (Of both dice and random electronic bitstreams.) Experiment -- see what can be done with these methods -- and let me know the results. I'd be happy to hear of any successes. (Type ct14 to continue.) ct14 -Samadhi/gnosis is very tricky, but it seems that not trying too hard usually helps. Clearing the mind should be practiced when you've got a few minutes with nothing to do. (Waiting for a friend at the bar. Riding in the passenger seat of a car. Ignoring the commercials until your favorite show comes back on. Etc.) -The less you pay attention, the better you'll do. (Has something to do with lust of results, no doubt.) -Relax -- getting frustrated actually reduced my results to far below probability at one point, until a couple of friends helped me out with this advice. -Patience -- At first it usually took me anywhere from several seconds to 30 minutes (!!) to divine a single card. There are times even now when I spend 15 minutes trrying to eliminate a preconception. (A real bugger when your preconception coincides with the suit of the card!) (Type ct15 to continue.) ct15 -Keep in mind that there is some part of you which _knows_ the answer -- when you're right, you will know it. -Practice -- practice makes perfect! Try to get a couple dozen cards in each day. It might take a while at first, but after an hour of practice every day for the better part of a week, you'll be able to divine a card's suit within several seconds on average. There is no substitute for experience, and all it requires is a small bit of perseverance. Io Ars Magicka, -Max -- maxk@earthlink.net Magickal code: MCH/O S W@ N++ PEC/XX++ Dr A C$@+++>+++++ G>++ Q(+) 666 Y>++++ (Fin.) Kat says, "i'll also go get something relevant" Kat vanishes is a puff of black smoke. Kat silently drifts out. Kat has left. You say, "In addition, there's the most important missing entry from Liber Prestidigitation:" Kat steps through the entranceway. Kat has arrived. Kat drifts in quietly. Kat says, "ARE you going to do somethiing to me here, or just leave me in suspence, BTW?" You say, ""I don't believe that there is much more to add. Get rid of the logical, analytical part of the mind, and simply "feel". And remember -- there is no substitute for experience."" You say, "Suspense." Fell says, "Thanks, Max." Kat says, "hmph" DeusExMachina raises and eyebrow at Kat.... and Max. Fell says, "Let's do it: I" You say, "Okay... Kat." Fell says, "shall page DEM and get him in." Kat says, "animal, vegetable, or mineral?" You say, "Animal" Kat is lagged Kat says, "oh good" Kat says, "not many of THOSE" You say, "Smaller than a car." You say, "Larger than an ant." You say, "Not horribly uncommon." CharredRose rolls on the floor laughing when he checks in. You say, "Lol... char thinks we're still arguing. =P" Kat says, "send along then, but we warned, i'm biased towards snakes" You say, "No .. YOU be warned. Eliminate preconceptions." CharredRose says, "No, I just think you're giving a very... interesting description, Max." Max chuckles. You say, "You're right. =)" You say, "Hint: It's black." Fell says, "Let's hit." DeusExMachina concentrates on the image - projecting... You say, "Okay... I'm sending." Kat says, "warm blooded" Azrhm has reconnected. You say, "We're sending the animal, Azrhm." You say, "Shhh!" Azrhm says, "To coin a phrase, doublefuckontoast. I disconnected AGAIN." Max laughs! You say, "I LOVE that!" DeusExMachina briefly opens an eye - continues concentrating on the image - projecting... Kat says, "furry?" You say, "yes" Fell says, "Tell us more about the fur." You say, "I already told her its black." Kat says, "quite coarse, but relatively short" You say, "She's GOOD." DeusExMachina says, "...more though."" CharredRose nods, impressed Kat says, "about the size of a large dog, perhaps a canine or a big cat?" You say, "Shall we tell her?" Kat says, "go on" Fell says, "Very good!" DeusExMachina says, "Giver her a bit more." You say, "A scottie." DeusExMachina says, "Ahhh..." DeusExMachina says, "Ahhh..." Kat says, "what i was abotu to say..." Kat says, "was did you have a dog, max" You say, "Oh... I thought she meant "go on and tell me". =( Sorry." Kat says, "no prob" DeusExMachina says, "Too bad - the other fine details you selected were good ones, Max." You say, "Yeah... actually the idea came from seeing my dog walk by the door of my room. =)" DeusExMachina finishes perusing the Liber AETHERICS. Azrhm has disconnected. You say, "Most impressive." Azrhm has connected. You say, "Doublefuckontoast?" Azrhm nods CharredRose says, "I'm back." Azrhm says, "Triple" DeusExMachina says, "What up with Azrhm? Connection problems maximus, eh?" Azrhm says, "Worse than usual, and i've just stolen a new modem> :-/" You say, "I was barking my head off at Kat from over here. =P" DeusExMachina says, "PissShit&Corruption, Azrhm." DeusExMachina chuckles. You say, "Kat has asked me to tell you that she's lost her connection and can't reconnect." You say, "So she'll be off for a while." CharredRose says, "All right. Talkin to her right now." DeusExMachina says, "Bummer-drag." Fell says, "Thanks guys, it's been fun, and informative. But now I must lay the carabou to rest, seeing as I'm at work at 7.30. Will someone log all this and mail me it for the site?" You say, "Still logging. 3 hours and counting. =)" CharredRose says, "All right, see you later, Fell." You say, "Er.. two" Max waves. DeusExMachina says, "See ya, Fell." You say, "Bye Fell." DeusExMachina says, "So Max.... " You say, "What was it you wanted, Deus?" DeusExMachina says, "Ah." DeusExMachina says, "I was wondering how familiar you were with Enochian magic?" You say, "Not at all. =) I don't take much stock in systems of magick which are tied to religion." DeusExMachina chuckles. DeusExMachina says, "Ah, yes, the battle-cry of the agnostic chaote - I'd forgotten." CharredRose grins You say, "Heh. I believe in all gods. I worship none. Simple as that." DeusExMachina says, "Well, exactly." DeusExMachina says, "My point was that Dee's aetheryic model is a fairly useful astral map..." DeusExMachina says, "... and dovetails surprisingly well with Carrol's stuff." You say, "Really? Do tell." DeusExMachina says, "Well, it's much the same model, really, isn't it?" DeusExMachina says, "A sort of 'nested' series of astral space defined by differing levels of density/vibrational rate." You say, "I thought for a moment we were talking about entirely different things unless there's more to Enochian (and I suspect there is) than I know about." You say, "Ah..."sa No. You say, "No." DeusExMachina says, "Sorry?" You say, "By aetherics I'm referring to energy manipulation." You say, "As was Carroll." DeusExMachina says, "Yes, I know." You say, "That entire essay refers to the material plane." DeusExMachina says, "What, in your model, is the source of these energies you describe?" You say, "Damned if I know. =P We're here to discuss our different views of different aspects and models of aetherics." DeusExMachina thought he was doing that. DeusExMachina smiles. You say, "To me the source is belief. But to others it is chi, kundalini, oneself, the force (i.e. all living things ), etc." You say, "Well as I understand it Dee's work refers to the Astral plane, and whatnot. Am I incorrect?" DeusExMachina says, "Strictly speaking, no. But the energies of Dee's aethyrs can be used for practical magical workings..." You say, "Well I'd be interested to hear about that." DeusExMachina says, "...thus bringing into the material plane an energy that is sort-of 'pre-filtered' to meet the specific demands of the ritual at hand." You say, "I see... so one would "channel" energy from a specific aether which corresponds to the working at hand?" DeusExMachina says, "That was the similarity that I was seeing between the two models. What I was wondering was, does Carrol's model provide any sort of 'astral road map' to match his energy definitions." DeusExMachina says, "And to your question, Max - yes, exactly." You say, "That's interesting.. could be very useful."DeusExMachina nods. DeusExMachina says, "'Sphere of Correspondence' magick." You say, "No he doesn't. His model is simply that everyone's got a big ball of aetheric goo in their abdomens which can be manipulated to affect reality. The way I take it -- it is simply a case of as above, so below. As a sigil is symbolic of a desire, so is the aether/chi/etc. representative of reality." You say, "In other words it is simply a tool which makes it easier to control our will." You say, "Our will could also be done unaided, if we were well-trained." DeusExMachina nods, contemplative. DeusExMachina says, "I guess I need to give the Carrol titles in my library a re-read." You say, "I'm not sure if that's clear but I illustrated it in a clearer manner somewhere at the beginning of this whole discussion. When I save the logs and edit them, you'll get a copy from the Z-list." You say, "Yes... I've had to read Liber Null two or three times. The aetherics section also correlates largely with the section near the end entitled "Anecdotes"" You say, "That would be at the end of Psychonaut, incidentally." DeusExMachina says, "Cool. Thanks." You say, "So does anyone have any questions/information to add/points of interest to bring up before we finish up for this session?" interest to bring up before we finish up for this session?" DeusExMachina says, "I'm just sorry I arrived so late!" You say, "Heh. That's alright. I'll fix you up with a transcript soon enough." You say, "Well since it doesn't seem that anyone has any more to add, I'll just say thank you for attending, check out Damascus -- take a look around. Stay a while. Lots of chaotes frequent this MUSH and you can chat with them as well as attend other discus sions, online rituals, and games." Damascus can be accessed via telnet at amber.org.uk on port 3500 It is suggested that you use a MUD client to connect. For more information, visit Damascus' website at: http://amber.org.uk/~damascus/frameset.html This discussion has subsequently generated some interest in aetherics/energy manipulation amongst its participants. For me, this is somewhat of an ongoing effort. Anyone who would like to discuss this subject further, share links, resources, ISBN#s, etc., is invited to e-mail me at: maxk@earthlink.net And you can expect to see many more discussions of this nature and others on Damascus MUSH in the future. And you can expect to see many more discussions on this topic and others at Damascus MUSH in the future. --------------C467BF03FCAC322AF0C251D9--