From: "Joseph Max.555"
On Wed, 16 Jul 1997, garyb wrote:
I've read some books and articles by both Phil Hine and Peter Caroll and
I like them very much. But besides the labels and institution what is
the difference between their theories and say...Issac Bonewits book Real
Magic, which I'm not sure is Yellow Magic(?) or Eclectic Magic?
Chaos Magic is eclectic, but eclectic is not necessarily Chaos Magic.
It's more a matter of approach and attitude. Most of the _practices_ of a
given chaote or group may of course be considered "eclectic".
But Bonewits posits a particular set of _beliefs_, that are basic
assumptions or axioms that are to be accepted as TRUE. There's a whole
list of them, I think, if I remember the book.
Chaos Magic posits no beliefs -- at least none to be considered absolutely
"true". Nothing is true. You are therefore free to take anything you like
and use it AS IF it were true. Everything is permitted. And the amazing
thing is that even if you're _faking it_ it still works!
A belief system, ANY belief system, even one cobbled together from bits
and pieces, copied or original, if it's _continuously_ subscribed to as
being _absolutely true_ by the magican, it ceases to be Chaos Magic.
Chaos Magicians are magical agnostics. They don't _know_ what might be
absolutely true, and suspect that _nothing_ is -- and they DON'T CARE.
This shows in the contrast between Pete and Phil. Pete's obsession was
empire building -- he was fascinated by the old Magical Order gambit and
wanted to do what Uncle Al did and leave a legacy. And he's done fairly
well with it. He sees it as ultimately philosophical and political, hence
his aeonic theories.
Phil is more personal and "eclectic". His passion is sociology and
psychology, and his work reflects it. Each man has picked what has meaning
FOR HIM and projected his magic onto it.
Bonewitz believes in ultimate meaning, of a "magical universe" governed by
laws. So did Crowley. Neither would be happy with the idea that the
ultimate meaning of the universe is that there is no ultimate meaning of
the universe.
Chaos Magic sees nothing but infinite chaos, stochastically dragged
into existence by each and every observer according to their
predispositions, and by manipulating these predispositions it can be bent
in desired directions by a canny intelligence.
Obviously you're not familiar with Bonewits' recent work, being an "Arch
Druid" and all. Talk about an age-old dead belief system...
That's where locked-in belief leads you, I suppose.
- J:.M:.555
Newsgroups: alt.magick.chaos
Subject: Re: Chaos vs Eclectic magic
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 18:00:40 -0700
What are the differences(if any) between Chaos magic and Eclectic magic?
I like that neither have their roots in age old dead beliefs and stem
from those things that draw emotion and passion from the wielder..
much like art...